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Amanda: Hey everyone. Welcome back to the podcast. This episode is a replay of an interview I did for the podcast A Bit Better Every Day with my good friend and fellow coach Ashlee Sorenson. You might remember Ashlee as she was on the podcast in episode 202, How Hormones Affect Your Libido, and she is a hormone and period coach.

This was the second time that I was on her podcast, and I loved our conversation so much that I wanted to share it with you, and so she graciously allowed me to do that. So here’s our conversation about igniting passion. 

Ashlee: Today, I am so excited to welcome back to the podcast, Amanda Louder. As mentioned earlier, Amanda is a sex and marriage coach, and I asked her to join me on the podcast today to talk about igniting passion in our relationship with our partner. I also wanted to talk to Amanda about igniting passion in our lives. 

Hey Amanda. Welcome back. 

Amanda: Hey, Ashley, I’m so happy to be back. 

Ashlee: Our previous episode that we recorded together, I know I already told you this, but it was one of my most highly rated episodes and I actually got a request from one of my clients to have you back and so 

Amanda: Aww.

Ashlee: Yeah, so pretty awesome. Yeah. 

Amanda: Yay! Well,thank you for having me back. 

Ashlee: Yes, yes. Thanks for doing this. I’m really excited about this conversation. I’m just gonna start off right with saying that something that I’ve noticed is that if I’m not feeling a passion or like a zest for life, it’s really hard for me to feel passion about my sex life or in the bedroom or for my husband. You know what I mean? 

Amanda: Yes, totally. 

Ashlee: And so I actually Googled the definition of passion and one definition was an intense sexual love. And another definition of passion was an intense desire or enthusiasm for something. 

Amanda: Yep. 

Ashlee: And so I’m just going to throw it out there that I think that in order to experience intense sexual love, we first need to cultivate an intense desire and enthusiasm for life.

Would you agree? 

Amanda: Yes. That’s what eros energy is. 

Ashlee: Okay. This is gonna be so good. So explain what that is. What is that? 

Amanda: So eros energy, we often assume that it goes with sex and passion in the sexual realm, but really eros energy is that zest for life. It’s that passion for life. So that’s where the word eroticism comes from, is that eros energy. And it’s really where our creativity comes from. It’s where we feel like we are being fulfilled in life. And so if we don’t have that generally for life, then it’s definitely going to be missing in the bedroom. And so that’s why when I’m working with clients, then we always work on relationship to self first because we have to have that zest for life and then carry it over into the bedroom or else it’s just not gonna be there. 

Ashlee: Like you and I are the same age. Well, you’re a few months older, but you know, but whose really keeping count. So you and I both have, like, we both have a business, we both have families, we have responsibilities at church and in the community and like all these different things that are like calling for our attention and we kind of, I mean, I feel sometimes pulled in a million different directions. And I’m sure that the women listening can relate to that. 

And so, I noticed that I really have to be intentional about connection with me and like making sure that I am fulfilled. And I know like a big red flag for me that I’m not taking care of myself in that way is that I become super irritated and like more tempered and like poor Ben, you know? Like he receives that, you know? And then like of course the last thing I want to do is like, have sex. Like that’s just not on the forefront of my mind.  

Amanda: Right. Absolutely. I think we as women really fall into these roles that we have, that we’ve pretty much been conditioned to fall into of wife, you know, maybe mother, maybe you know, church goer, whatever, like whatever that is. And, I don’t know about you, but like when I was a kid, when I was a teenager, I had these goals for myself. That kind of just ended with marriage. 

Ashlee: Yeah, totally. 

Amanda: You know, I mean, for me it was like marriage and kids and own a home and so like when you get there, then what? And really, you know, developing ourself should be a constant thing and figuring out our desires for everything, not just sexual desires, but desires in life and following those. I think that’s where we feel the most fulfilled and alive, and have that eros energy where we, you know, really have a passion for life. Like if we’re loving what we’re doing, you know, I mean, of course there’s gonna be mundane things in our life, there just is. But if we can turn to parts of ourselves where we do feel alive and fulfilled and we’re following those God-given desires that we have, that’s when that’s when we’re gonna feel the our best. And then that’s gonna translate into the bedroom. 

Ashlee: Yes. So how, as you’re working with clients, I mean, you’ve worked with hundreds of women and helped them, and so how do you, like what are your best tips on how we can connect with ourselves or get to like, kind of reignite that passion. I mean, I hear from women all the time that they’re like, I don’t even know who I am anymore. Like, I don’t even know, like I’m just mom, I’m wife, I’m, you know, a coworker. Like, I don’t even know what I like, yes. Or whatever. So what are your suggestions for that?

Amanda: Well, that’s an exercise that I have my clients go through is figure out what their desire is for. Like, if you weren’t worried about what people thought of you or how much money it would take or whatever, like other shoulds you have in your brain. You weren’t worried about being selfish, which I hate that word so much.

Ashlee: Mm-hmm. Yes. Yeah. 

Amanda: You know. Um, then like, what would you want to do? Where would you wanna go? What would you wanna own? Who would you wanna be? Like, we put all these conditions and restrictions on ourselves instead of letting ourselves dream, you know, use our imagination and instead of following those desires that we have deep inside of us.

So, you know, clients will be like, well, I would love to go to Paris. I’m like, okay, that sounds amazing. What’s stopping you? And they’re like, well, you know, what would I do with my kids? And you know, it takes so much money and my husband doesn’t have time off and stuff. I’m like, stop putting all those limitations on yourself and start looking for how you can make that happen.

And really starting to just look for the desires that you have in your life. Why do you wanna go to Paris? What’s appealing to you about that? Tap into those. Understand yourself better because then it’s gonna open up your mind to so many other possibilities. 

And that doesn’t mean like you have to go to Paris. It’s just an exercise to help you understand yourself better and what you really want for yourself. Like, you know, maybe the idea of going to Paris is, you know, I wanna travel somewhere that I’ve never been before, or I want to, you know, feel this romantic destination, or I just want to, you know, experience new foods and or, you know, there’s so many different parts of that that when we really start to understand, we’re like, oh, well how can I do that with what I have now?

I don’t have to go to Paris in order to do that. Like there’s so many things that we can figure out just by following those desires and understanding them better. And once we can do that, then we have to start understanding the conditioning that we have around it, right? 

Like you can’t do these things because you’re a wife and a mom and you don’t have the money, or you have all these restrictions, or you’re selfish. 

And the reason why I hate the word selfish is because I think we are conditioned as women to be self-sacrificing, and we think that if we’re not self-sacrificing, then we’re being selfish.

And selfish for me, the real definition is when you have no regard for anybody else’s feelings or thoughts. Or anything. 

Ashlee: Yes.

Amanda: And I don’t think that’s true of any of us. I think we do have regard for that. But we also have need to understand that what we think and what we feel is just as important as everyone else’s and stop self-sacrificing. So I think there’s a difference there, and I think that as women, we run into that a lot. 

Ashlee: Hmm. Yeah. That’s so good. Yeah, I love that your idea of, how can I make this work for me right now? Maybe I don’t go to Paris right now, maybe that’s not the feasible right now, but how can I make all of those feelings and things that I wanna experience, how can I make them a reality with what I have right now? 

Amanda: Yeah. With the goal that maybe you still wanna go to Paris someday. Right? But it’s really understanding what’s behind that, that is gonna help ignite that passion within you right now.

Ashlee: Yeah. And I think a lot of us stop, I mean, I’ve noticed this with myself, that I’ll stop myself. I’ll be like, oh, I really want it and then I’m just immediately like, well, shut it down, Ashlee, because that ain’t ever going to happen. Or like, that’s not gonna be doable for however many more years. You know what I mean? 

Amanda: Yeah. 

Ashlee: And so I don’t even like let myself want it. But I think it’s really important that we understand what we want. And that we really kind of get in touch with what it is that we want. 

Amanda: Absolutely. 

Ashlee: And that goes like in and out of the bedroom, you know what I mean?

Amanda: A hundred percent. A hundred percent. And if you’re not willing to say what you want outside the bedroom, there’s no way you’re gonna be able to say what you want inside the bedroom. 

Ashlee: Yes. How does passion for life, how does that influence the relationship with your partner? 

Amanda: Well, if you’re not, again, not willing to say what you want, if you’re not willing to look at what you want, if you’re not willing to let yourself want and desire and stuff, it’s gonna affect every aspect of your life.

I mean, I think so much of what happens in the bedroom is a reflection of what’s happening everywhere else in your life. So that’s why I love working with clients specifically on their sexual relationship because if you can develop yourself in that area, it’s going to translate to every other area of your life because it’s the hardest, it’s the most vulnerable and so when you’re developing yourself there, like if you can learn how to say what you want in the bedroom, you can desire, you can, um, express yourself, you can stay present. Like how is that gonna translate to every other area of your life, right? So when we, if you’re scared or it’s hard to do it in the bedroom, start doing it outside the bedroom first, and then we can start working inside the bedroom.

Ashlee: How do we ignite passion because like talking about what we want and it’s like, maybe it’s a big trip to Paris, but like how do we ignite passion for life just in like the normal day-to-day activities, you know, the routine.

Amanda: Well, yeah. I mean part of it is letting yourself imagine and want and desire, right? But finding things that you find fulfilling now. So, you know, we kind of get stuck in these ruts of doing the same old, same old day in, day out. 

Like take a painting class, or take a dance class or, you know, schedule lunch with your girlfriends every other week or whatever, just get out of the norm and the mundane and do something for yourself that’s not selfish. It’s part of taking care of yourself and then you have more to give everybody else. 

But you really have to just start doing things for yourself, cuz that’s gonna translate to passion for yourself, which is gonna translate to everything else. 

Ashlee: Why do you think that the passion fades through the year? You know what I mean? We all remember what it was like when we first started dating. It was like so fun and like, but then it kind of just like fades away and life happens. And so why is that, that it’s just so easily because… 

The reason I asked this is because I got a question from a woman and she was like, I’m a newlywed. I waited until I was married to have sex. So what advice do you have for me? And so, you know, as a newlywed, it’s still fun and exciting and you know.

Amanda: For some, for most. For some like, it’s never there, which I’m like, that’s a problem. 

Ashlee: Yeah. So maybe like back up a little bit and like, what are some red flags like if you’re dating that maybe this could be a sign that…

Amanda: Yeah. If there isn’t passion and excitement there, if there isn’t sexual attraction there, don’t do it. Don’t do, don’t do it because it’s not gonna come later.

Ashlee: Mm-hmm. Yes. So, I mean if you can both agree like that’s not important to us, then you just want a life of companionship and friendship, okay, then go forward, that’s fine. But if that’s important to either one of you and it’s not there, that’s gonna be a problem. 

Ashlee: Yeah, for sure. So what advice could you offer to a newlywed to keep the passion alive? 

Amanda: Well, I think let’s back up and go to like why it fades. I think it’s important to say it’s normal for it to ebb and flow in long-term relationships. You are not going to feel always that same passion that you felt in the beginning. Now hopefully there’s periods where you do. And you know, when you can get away from the cares of the world and all of your responsibilities hopefully you can find that passion and stuff, but it is really normal for it to ebb and flow throughout the relationship.

But I think there’s some really common reasons why it fades. Probably the biggest one is familiarity. Mm-hmm. When you’re first together, you’re learning all these things about each other, and so it is exciting. Right. And when you become more familiar with someone, it’s easy to take ’em for granted, you start seeing things in them that you maybe don’t like as much, or things that you’re like, oh, that’s cute, and then you just like, really find annoying. 

Ashlee: Not so cute anymore. 

Amanda: No. So I think like that familiarity is a big one. Um, stress is part of it. Like when you’re newly married or you know, dating or whatever, like, there’s not a whole lot of stress there most of the time, but like once you, most of the kids I know like get married while they’re like in college or whatever. So like, you know, once you like start heading into real life and you’ve got jobs and kids and a mortgage and financial concerns and you know, all these different things, it’s just, it’s harder to maintain strong emotional connection and physical intimacy with your partner, it just is.

And especially when you are in like young kid phase, oh man, like all your physical energy is going there. Like, I think it can start to come back and if you make it a priority, you can definitely keep it going, but both of you have to make it a priority in order to keep it going.

Lack of communication is a big one. Like we just stopped communicating. Like you remember when you were like dating and engaged and you literally just like talked about everything? You like stayed up all night long? Talking and stuff. You don’t do that anymore? 

Ashlee: No. I’m like, stop talking, Ben. I’m going to sleep. 

Amanda: Right. This is so funny, but like, I mean, the night that I met Kevin, we literally talked all night long. Like we talked until he had to go to work the next morning. 

But like you just don’t communicate like that anymore as, you know, married people. So that can detract from the passion. 

Routine just gets kind of boring and predictable. And that definitely leads to lack of passion and excitement. 

And then a lot of couples, like I said, fall into this lack of physical intimacy. And so if you aren’t doing it very often, you’re not gonna probably have a whole lot of passion and emotional connection there. 

Ashlee: Well, you mentioned like both of you have to want to like keep the passion alive. And I’m thinking about the women that want to, like, they wanna keep the passion alive, but there’s a couple of obstacles. There’s like, how do I make time for that? What does that even look like for me? How do I make it a priority? And then also I’m sure my husband would like more sex, but he works a ton. You know what I mean? Like he’s not working on the passion for life necessarily. He just wants me to like, want it more often or wants to have sex more often, you know what I mean?

So what if like your spouse or your significant other is just kind of not super concerned about the igniting passion for life, just wants more passion in the bedroom.

Amanda: Um, really it’s not one without the other. And so really looking at how you can, um, create that together. So you’re gonna have your own wants and desires that’s gonna help you, that you definitely need to follow, but really having a foundation of fun and pleasure and, um, like a shared vision of what you want for your marriage is a really important part of that.

So whether that’s, you know, you have activities that you do together, like go play tennis or you go on trips. Or like whatever it is, like things that you like to do together. My husband and I fish together. Now, is that necessarily my passion? No, it’s definitely his passion. But I love to spend time with him and like, time out on our boat together while he’s fishing and I love to just be out on the water, like that’s one of my favorite things. And then we have that time to talk and communicate that like really helps set that foundation. Um, making sure you just like, create that time for each other. Like you have to, whether that’s date night, once a week, or like with my clients, I tell ’em to do like a 222 rule.

So at the minimum, a date every two weeks, a night or a weekend away every two months. And like a week long vacation every two years. 

Ashlee: Oh, I love that. 

Amanda: Finances are hard, especially, you know, in the beginning. So some of those things might be hard. Or like you’ve got a lot of little kids and you’re like pregnant and nursing babies, like a week long vacation every two years might be kind of hard. Do what you can. But set that precedent that this is what you want for yourself. 

And when you can do that, then you’re building that foundation together, so you’re gonna have individual passions that you wanna pursue, but you need to have some of those things that you do together, that are gonna bring you together to keep that passion alive in your marriage too. 

Ashlee: That’s so good, so say it again. 

Amanda: A date night every two weeks. A night or a weekend away every two months. And that doesn’t have to be far away. I mean, you can get like a hotel nearby, trade kids with a neighbor or a family member, or get grandma to come over or whatever, like whatever you can do. And then like a week long vacation every two years. 

Ashlee: Okay. Yeah, I think that that’s awesome. I think that’s awesome. So let’s go back, Amanda, to how we start igniting the passion and just the everyday routine life. What are your tips for that? 

Amanda: I mean, I think communication’s a big one. Like really being able to talk with your partner. If you can’t talk intimately and openly and honestly with your partner, talk about your feelings, your concerns, your partner’s feelings and concerns, you’re not gonna have that foundation tor intimacy that’s going to be there so that you can build the passion on top of that. So that’s a really important part.

A lot of people want passion without intimacy. And I just think that that’s a problem. Like that’s what we see in movies and media and stuff, is passion without intimacy. And I think more passion comes when you have that foundation for intimacy, which intimacy, meaning you are being fully known and you are fully knowing your partner.

And that takes open and honest communication. Which is hard to do.

Ashlee: For sure. Yeah.

Amanda: Spending quality time together. Like we talked about trying new things together. So a lot of times when you’re, I mean, go bungee jumping with your partner, I mean, or take a dance class or like whatever, like when you’re trying new things together, that can help reignite that excitement and that passion with each other.

Expressing physical affection without it necessarily being sexual is really important. I think, especially for women, but it creates intimacy and closeness without you just being like a sexual object. 

So like we really want, you know, as women, like holding hands, hugging, kissing with no expectations of sex.

Ashlee: When you think about like how fun that is, like when you’re dating and you’re just like making out, but it’s not like going all the way, you know what I mean? That’s like really fun and that builds up like the anticipation, right? 

Amanda: Yes. I mean, that’s what builds up to that first, that builds the sexual tension for like why you want each other so bad, because you’ve spent all this time building that sexual tension. By holding hands, kissing, making out, without going all the way to sex. So if you can like, do a lot more of that, that’s gonna build the sexual tension, which will help with the passion in the bedroom.

Ashlee: Okay, love it. 

Amanda: Okay. Um, spicing things up in the bedroom so, you know, new toys, new positions, role playing, all that kinda stuff, that can be really fun and ignite new things. At the same time, I often think that that’s what we try to do without, again, that foundation of intimacy. And I think where passion really comes in the bedroom is from the deeper meanings that we create.

So it’s not necessarily about a new toy or a new position or role playing or whatever, but what are the underlying meanings that you’re creating? Like is it more trust? Is it more intimacy? Is it how much I can show you, how much I love you with all of me, all of my body? Like really creating deeper meanings is really, really exciting and can be very passionate.

Ashlee: Yes. Oh, so good. I love all of that. I do, I do. I’m always learning from you and I feel like, you know, my own relationship, you know, with sex is always, I feel like I’ve done a lot of work on it because of you. I’ve learned so much from you, but like it’s a work in progress too. 

Amanda: Always. And so, I mean, it is for me too. 

Ashlee: Yeah. Really? Because you’re like the…

Amanda: I’m the sex queen. But that doesn’t mean that I always have everything figured out. It doesn’t mean that I don’t have a hard time being vulnerable and really showing my full self, that doesn’t mean it’s always easy for me to ask for what I want.

Like I still find that I have trouble with that sometimes now because I do what I do, I have the tools to get myself through it. But it doesn’t mean that it’s not hard. 

Ashlee: That’s reassuring to me, and I’m sure everybody else too. 

So yeah, like I am kind of thinking about the women that maybe have like a husband that works a lot, very busy and doesn’t take time for himself, you know, to like cultivate passion for life. How can we encourage our spouse, I mean, obviously we can’t make him do anything, but how do we encourage that he explore his own passion or ignite his own passion for life? 

Amanda: Yeah. Well, I would say maybe on one of those date nights, you ask him.

Like if you weren’t working so much or you didn’t feel so pulled or whatever, what would you wanna be doing? 

And start helping his brain start to think of these things and then like, I think that sounds amazing. I would love to help you make that a reality. And showing passion for his passion and what’s gonna ignite him, you know, and really leading by example too.

Like you have to be willing to do that for yourself as well. 

Ashlee: Yeah. I think it’s really important that we discover who we are without our partner. 

Amanda: Yeah. 

Ashlee: You know what I mean? 

Amanda: Yeah. 

Ashlee: Because I mean, like, I’ve been married for 23 years now, and it’s like me and Ben, me and Ben, Ashlee and Ben go together. You know what I mean? 

Amanda: Yeah. 

Ashlee: But it’s like you can’t have one without the other. But I think it’s really, really important to know who you are without your kids, without your partner. And, um, that’s like the foundation for igniting passion for life and like you’ve said, carries into the bedroom.

Amanda: Definitely. And I think so many of us got married so young. Right? And we didn’t really…

Ashlee: I was 12!

Amanda: Right? When I got married to my first husband. I got married nine days after I turned 19. 

Ashlee: Wow. 

Amanda: So I was a baby. I’m like, I look back like, I have two kids older than, almost three kids older than that.

Ashlee: Wow. Now that’s crazy. 

Amanda: Like my third one will be 19 in October, and the thought of her getting married. I’m like, oh my gosh. 

Ashlee: Like, don’t you dare. 

Amanda: It’s so crazy. So crazy. And she’s really mature, but I still think that that’s crazy. 

So like, I just don’t, I didn’t know myself. I thought I did, but I didn’t really, and so, I’ve had to do that within marriage, which I think is a little bit harder because then you’re balancing between, right. And then you’ve got all these kids and it’s just been harder. Right? 

But now I’m actually finding, and actually this is really true for a lot of women in their forties and fifties, when the kids are all gone and they’ve realized, I don’t know who I am, I don’t know what, who I am without these kids or whatever, that that’s when they really take the time. Usually happens around menopause. 

Ashlee: Exactly. Yep. Right. 

Amanda: Where you just start questioning everything. 

Ashlee: Exactly. Yep. 

Amanda: And, um, but really, if you can do that before, it would be to your benefits.

Ashlee: Yeah. I was going to mention that. First thing I wanna say is that I just want like the listeners to understand that everything that Amanda is saying, there is a spot in your menstrual cycle for you to do all of these things? Because the menstrual cycle has two introverted phases, so the ludial phase and the menstrual phase, those are both the inward energy phases where it’s like getting to know who you are and you actually feel more desire to be alone. Those are like the ideal times of your cycle to explore what ignites passion for you. You know, I’m always saying to like, slow down your schedule, create more white space in your schedule and the reason for that is so that you can have a little bit more time to yourself to get to know yourself. Like the journaling questions that I recommend aren’t just for kicks and giggles. You know what I mean? Like it’s to get to know who you are. And so I love, like it’s a beautiful thing that the cycle creates those containers for us.

And then you’ve got inner spring and inner summer, so follicular and ovulatory phases where then you get to, like, you want to go on dates with your partner, you wanna do the fun stuff, you maybe wanna, you know, try something new. Like Innerspring is a perfect time to do that with your partner.

Amanda: Schedule your trips or your weekends during those phases.

Ashlee: Exactly. And so I think it’s really fun to look at how the menstrual cycle supports that. I always say the menstrual cycle is this initiatory process. We really have this opportunity to shed a new skin every time we leave a menstrual cycle and become somebody new. And kind of blossom in different areas of our life. 

And that includes our relationships. And so I just want you guys to know that like your hormones and your cycle is supporting you and, um, can create ways for you to ignite the passion in different ways throughout your cycle. So that’s pretty cool.

Amanda: I have a lot of women who tell me, and you probably get this a little bit too, is that they have a really hard time getting into the sexual realm with their spouse after being in like mother role all day. The last thing they wanna do is then go into like, I’ve been taking care of everybody else all day, and now I have to take care of him.

And so that transition, it doesn’t even seem feasible. And so I always recommend that the women take a little bit of time for themselves before they try to connect with their spouse. So whether that’s, um, and it’s doing those things that connect back to us, that bring us the passion, you know, and maybe that’s going for a run or doing a yoga class or taking a bath or reading a book or whatever.

It connects you back to you and makes you feel like you and, you know, there’s women that are like, I don’t have time for that. I’ve gotta get kids to bed. Or like, I’ve got so many things going on in the evening. Put that on your husband. Let him know that you’re going to, it’s going to be easier for you to be sexual and connect with him and have that passion with him when you can connect back to you first.

So let him take over bedtime routine. Let him do like clean up dinner, whatever it is. I think most men are going to be very receptive to that if they think they might be getting sex later. 

Ashlee: Absolutely. 

Amanda: They better be. Right? We’re not telling it to do transactional. Like, you do this and then I’ll do this for you. It’s like, I need you to do this so that I can connect to me and then I can connect to you.

Ashlee: That makes so much sense to me. It’s like, well, yeah, duh. You know, you’ve been giving all day long, and then here’s your husband, here’s my turn. And it’s like, I’ve had kids crawling on me all day long…

Amanda: I’m touched out. Right? I don’t have the time, the energy, like the last thing I wanna do is take care of somebody else. But when part of that passion and that eroticism and the eros energy is, is taking in and being nurtured by that. 

And most women see sex as something they do for their spouse. And one of the things that I really work on with women is to help them see that it actually should be the other way. It actually should be him taking care of you sexually. Um, like really, that’s your time to be nurtured and taken care of. So, men have their orgasm pretty quickly. Right?

But most men find that their sexuality is very generous in nature. They find so much enjoyment in giving and like watching you feel. And we as women were like, oh, my orgasm takes so long. It takes too long. Like he’s probably bored. He’s probably sick and tired of touching me and giving what I need.

And I’m like, no, he’s enjoying it every second of it. Most men, if they’re good men, will take as long as it needs to give you what you want. And I really think that God created women so that our orgasm does take longer because they’re like, these women do so much.And they need a chance to be nurtured. And taken care of and letting yourself do that.

And we as women don’t, that’s part of the problem, is we don’t allow ourselves to be nurtured and taken care of sexually. So instead of like, I’m touched out and he just wants more from me, it’s like, no, this is his time to touch you and you need to receive touch, not give. Now you’re of course you’re gonna be part of the process, right? But it can be a nurturing experience, which can be way more passionate. 

Ashlee: I’ve talked about that here on the podcast. We’ve talked about like masculine and feminine energy traits. And like masculine energy, giving is masculine. Receiving is feminine. 

Amanda: And we as women don’t do a very good job of moving into that feminine energy and receiving. 

Ashlee: Yeah. Why do you think that is? 

Amanda: Because we’ve been conditioned our whole lives that we are the gatekeepers of men’s sexuality. And that men are the sexual ones, and it’s our job to accommodate them instead of seeing it as a, you know, this is a process where the two of you can be passionate and connecting and intimate and really move into those roles that were more natural for us. And so getting over that conditioning that we have to be, the ones always giving.

Ashlee: Yeah. So I love the idea of like filling, doing something for yourself, filling your cup before you then having sex. Instead of just like immediately like switching your mind to like, okay, now I’ve gotta have sex, it’s like, okay, I’m gonna do something for myself here. And then I’ll have a kind of like refilling my, my tank a little bit. 

Amanda: Yeah. Refilling that tank and then moving into that more feminine energy and the receiving role.

Ashlee: Yeah. And I think that that’s going to help you feel less resentful about like, oh geez, now I gotta do this for you. 

Amanda: 100%. And which is also gonna make you feel a lot more passion towards it. 

Ashlee: So you mentioned menopause earlier, and, um, I wanna touch on that a little bit because I’ve mentioned here on the podcast that menopause is a lot like a second puberty. You know, your body’s changing. You’re like, what are these changes? What is happening? And I think you and I are both experiencing that. 

Amanda: Oh yes, we are. 

Ashlee: And um, and it’s a really good time to kind of like evaluate where, like you said, you kind of question everything and your likes are starting to change.

You really start to question like maybe like your values and beliefs. And I think it’s all really good and all really important because, um, you’re getting ready to like enter this new phase of life, and you’re not expected to be the same person all the time. And now that you know, kids are probably out of the house or whatever, and it’s just like a very natural time.

Um, your hormones are supporting that and encouraging that evaluation of your life. You know what I mean? 

Amanda: Yep. 

Ashlee: And so, I think it’s good to remember that just like in this cycle, the things that ignite passion for you in and out of the bedroom are going to be different as you move through the cycle. And that’s okay. Right? Like the thing that like felt fulfilling and joyful to you last week may not sound like fun to do today. And that’s totally normal. And same thing as you’re entering into menopause. It’s like, hmm, the thing that I really enjoyed doing 10 years ago, you know, or 20 years ago, even five years ago, it doesn’t do anything for me anymore.

And I think that it’s really important that we allow ourselves to evolve and not try and, like you mentioned earlier, the things that we should be doing. Or we think that are the right thing to do because the lady next door is doing it, or our best friend is doing it that way. 

Amanda: Or we’ve been told by our mother. Or you know, women in her life or society in general or religious wise like. We have to question all of it and if it’s actually gonna be right for us.

Ashlee:  Yes. Yeah. And that’s why I’m always telling my clients, you know, I want you to ask yourself what feels good to me? What sounds fun for me? What makes sense for me? And then like, leaning into that. So many times I’m hearing women say, well, my sister does blah, blah, blah. Well my best friend does it this way. Or, uh, you know, and it’s like, just let all that go and really come back to who you are and like what are your values and what do you wanna do, because that’s all that matters. 

Amanda: As you were talking about that, I was kind of thinking, this is where my brain, like in our like teenage years, I kind of feel like that’s like our inner spring.

Where we’re like figuring things out and we’re very extroverted and stuff. 

And then like those early married years, like where everything’s kind of coming to fruition is like that inner summer, right? 

And then we start to like move into the fall. Where we’re getting like perimenopause of our, like we’re question, we’re starting to question everything.

We’re going more internal. 

And then menopause, that inner winter.

And then after menopause, it’s like spring again!

Ashlee:  Exactly. You nailed it right on the head, girl. Like that’s exactly right. Like you and I are in like the inner autumn of life. 

Amanda: Yes, we are. 

Ashlee: And I think, you know, it’s funny, like we call it a midlife crisis. I mean, I left my job that I’d had for almost 20 years, you know? I was very successful and I like left and I think people were like, oh my gosh, Ashlee’s having a midlife crisis. Like what’s happening with her and I completely kind of like flipped my life upside down when I did that, but it’s because I was changing on the inside. 

And I don’t think that I fully recognized it then, but like in retrospect, I can totally see that was happening on purpose. You know what I mean? 

Amanda: Yeah. 

Ashlee: We have that period of menopause we reach, you know, one year without a bleed and then we kind of like get to start all over again. And I think that’s really exciting. Instead of thinking of like, oh, menopause. It sucks. It’s miserable. 

I mean, it does have some challenges, but it’s definitely not the end. I mean, I don’t feel like I’m shriveling up into dry, dry, crispy. 

Amanda: No. I feel more passion and more alive now than I probably ever have. I mean, I announced on my 39th birthday that I was a coach. Like 39th birthday, I’m like, okay, this is what I’m doing in my life now. And everybody’s like, what in the world? 

Ashlee: Yes. Yeah. 

Amanda: And I mean, gosh, that was almost five years ago, but I just think like, yeah, entering in this new phase where I’m just really figuring myself out for the first time. 

I mean, yeah, I knew what I wanted back then, but like I said before, it kind of just like stopped at like, have kids buy a house, right? And I didn’t see beyond that what I wanted for my life. And I mean, my babies are 15 and almost like I have my third one almost out of the house, and then I’ll have just two more left at home and I’m like a couple more years and they’ll all be gone. Like I have to know what my life is like and want more than just being a mother. Granted, like being a mother has been very rewarding in so many ways, but I’m more than just that role.

Ashlee: Exactly. 

Amanda: I am a woman and I have passions and desires and wants outside of that. And those passions and desires or wants are good. And they’re God-given.  I know some women who find so much fulfillment in motherhood and more power to them. I don’t. I love my kids, but I don’t, that’s not where I find my fulfillment. And so I’ve had to figure out what that is because I’m gonna have lots of life left without…I will always be a mother, but without them in my home and the day today. And I want passion and fun and desire and for my own life and between me and my spouse. 

Ashlee: That’s so important and I’m so glad that you said that mother, like your thoughts about motherhood, because I think that there are a lot of women that feel that way, but feel guilty about feeling that way.

Amanda: Yeah. And I used to feel so guilty about that, and then I’ve also realized that this is how I was created. I was created to yes, be a mother, but also, and not just to my own child. I mean, I have stepchildren. Like mothering other people. Like I don’t just mean like children I’ve given birth to, right? Like nieces and nephews, friends, kids, all that kind of stuff. Like yes, that’s part of who I am, but I am so much more than that. And that is also God-given. 

Ashlee: Yes. Absolutely. Like that’s just one piece…

Amanda: One piece. And I would even say for me, it’s a small piece. 

Ashlee: Amanda, thank you so much for everything that you’ve said about igniting passion in our lives and in our relationships and how they are connected. I love you. 

Amanda: I love you too

Ashlee: And I appreciate your wisdom. I’m always learning from you, and I’m so grateful for you. Will you tell everybody how they can find you, where they can find you, and how they can learn more from you? 

Yeah, so I’m on Instagram @amandaloudercoaching, so I’m on there all day and you can always DM me and lots of information on there.

I have my own podcast. It’s called Sex for Saints, where we talk about all things sex and marriage has over a million downloads. We’re almost at 1.1 million. 

Ashlee: Amazing. That’s so awesome. 

Amanda: So it’s super fun. And then my website where you can learn more information about my program, so I have programs for women, men and couples.

And then I usually do a few retreats every year as well. So that’s really fun. 

And that’s just amandalouder.com. 

Ashlee: Are you doing a couple’s retreat this year? 

Amanda: Yes. I have a couple’s retreat in September. 

Ashlee: Okay, very cool. So yeah, please everybody look into that and go follow Amanda and continue to learn from her cuz she’s awesome.

Thanks so much, Amanda for being here. 

Amanda: Thanks for having me, Ashlee. 

Amanda: All right, my friends. I hope you enjoyed that interview and that was really fun. Um, if you want to learn more about my coaching programs or how to ignite passion in your relationship with yourself or with your spouse, please go to my website, amandalouder.com, click on Get Help, and I would love to help you in one of my coaching programs.

Have a great week everyone. We’ll see you next week. Bye-bye.